Morbitbuzz: 5/1/13 Day 55- The bear and tiger returns!

5/‎1/‎13
Morning Session.
Supposed to be the defense sur-rebuttal. Of course, Twitter said Juan and Flores went back to judge's chambers. Also, Deanne is sitting with Travis' family.

Jodi's wearing a white top with her bangs swiped to the side.

These meds make me loopy!

Palin asks for an approach as soon as the judge sits.

Palin calls Dr. Geffner. He has a PH.D. He has lots of degrees. He kind of looks like the father of Magnum PI. He has lots of experience.

I'm so happy to be here. Hope everybody
stays tuned for my book coming out soon.

He's been around for a long time. He has A LOT of titles. This Dr. doesn't get paid any money to testify. He gets salary. (My brain is getting foggy now)

My mom better make damn sure she is
here.

Approach

This fuckery is going to end today!

Palin is trying to get the Dr. to tell Az rules for licenses, but JM keeps objecting. Palin asks for an approach.

Now the Dr. is explaining how he knows the Az rules and how many hours a person needs for licenses. (I think Palin may be trying to discredit Dr. DeMarte's experience) This Dr. has 2 diplomat (or whatever) He is a special Dr. in certain areas. JM keeps objecting, but the judge lets the information in. I guess a Dr. can get a diplomat and be considered a specialist in certain fields.

I don't think Jodi blinks!

She stares hard at the jury all day long

Jodi is one weird girl

I would be scared if I were on the jury!

Dr. has testified at least 150 times. He's a professional court testifier. He's testified in many DP cases. He doesn't advertise. He's had no complains filed against him.

Notice how all her golf pencils have to line
up perfect.

Dr. reviewed all the test Jodi took. He re scored the test. Dr. never talked to Jodi. He didn't look at police reports or interviews.

Justice is coming!

Dr. is now going into a long story about "him" and all the stuff he supervised.

Approach after Palin bought up scales, and JM objected.

JM and Flores always look so cool

The scales are like a lie detector. The Dr. says there is no way a person could lie on the test b/c they couldn't remember the lie from one minute to the next. Dr. reviewed Jodi's test. All the test were over a 2 yr period.

Jodi is doing weird things with her mouth
again.

The scales show that they were valid responses. The Dr. is saying that Jodi's test was truthful. There are slight difference over the 2 years on the test. Dr. DeMarte's test- Jodi showed numerous mental issues.

Another quack doctor testifying on the stand
about our brother-who he didn't even know.

MMPI- EX 631- Dr. Demarte's- The Dr. said they are not allowed to show people the test. They are only allowed to release to another Dr. Dr. says that Jodi is displaying many mental issues that need to be explored further.

Jodi rotten brain.

Floating profile is a person that has a lot of stuff above the normal range on the scale. The Dr. just said BPD. The Dr. says that research says MMPI is not good for a floating profile. The floating profile is not valid. The Dr. says he looks at all the scales. (I'm so freaking bored right now) Now the Dr. is explaining each scale and what it means.

At least Jodi's friend is there to support her.

PTSD- The Dr. says there are scales that would show that. The Dr. is basically saying Dr. DeMarte was wrong. The Dr. is saying none of these test should be used alone when diagnosing somebody. The Dr. is looking at his notes. JM wants the notes marked and Palin doesn't. The judge says we are having a break in 5 minutes and JM can look at the notes then.

Travis' sister looks like she wants to slap
Jodi real hard

The Dr. said Jodi has symptoms that need to be explored further. The Dr. says this test is not designed to find BPD's. You would need the MCMI for personality disorders.

Jodi should quit staring
at Travis' family.

Break is 10 minutes.

After break

Dr. is back on the stand. Palin is still up for the defense.

Alyce is my best friend forever!

MCMI- it is designed for Personality disorders. (The Dr. spilled his water) EX 541- Jodi's test. The Dr. considers the test truthful. Jodi scored 11 for BPD which was really low. (I'm so confused. This whole testimony makes no sense)The Dr. says BPD is not supported.

Damn it! The lice is still here.

TSI- EX 628 & 629- Handscored. EX 646- computer printout of the same test. This Dr. is only working from the test results. He did not talk/interview Jodi.

EX 646- admitted in- (this Dr. likes to toot his own horn) Jodi's printout. This was the test Dr. Demarte gave Jodi. It was a test that Jodi took to pretend it was in the 2007-2008 time. The Dr. says it is not the ideal way to give a test. Approach

EX 646

The Dr. says Dr. Demarte was wrong about the test not having the summary scales. TSI 1 or TSI 2. Dr. Demarte did the TSI 1, but the TSI 2 was available. The Dr. says it's not appropriate to use old test. The Dr. is basically saying Dr. Demarte was to cheap to buy new ones.

(Pee Break)

(I think the Dr. is trying to say Jodi had trauma b/c she killed Travis. Killing Travis caused her to have PTSD) The Dr. says the scale shows that Jodi was trying not to think about the murder and event. She was trying to cope (very hard eye roll) and sexual behavior. Sex made Jodi had trauma. (Poor Jodi) Jodi was having depression.

My fans came out to see me

I'm looking for somebody special

I'm so freaking bored with all this talk
of Travis. UGH

JM objects and Palin wants an approach

Jodi was having flashbacks in Dr. Carp's report and the sexual stuff increased. A year and 1/2 later Jodi was not as depressed. She was thinking more about self image. Jodi had anxiety and PTSD. (who really cares what Jodi had after the killing? What difference does it make at all? PTSD or BPD-she still killed a man. Why can't Jodi just be suffering because she is in fuc*ing JAIL.)The Dr. just said that BPD and trauma can overlap. (HAHAHA) The Dr. said a person could be suffering from PTSD and BPD.

Approach after JM objected b/c Palin's question was beyond scope of rebuttal

Now they are talking about an hypothetical story AKA Jodi's story. The Dr. thinks Jodi has PTSD and anxiety disorder. He thinks Jodi shows more of a anxiety disorder than PTSD disorder.
THE DOCTOR JUST FU*KING BURPED ON THE STAND (it was loud in my headphones)

At least Jodi's grandmother looks bored
as hell.

Checking boxes on the test showed Jodi had PTSD. Jodi answered on the test that she suffered trauma (we all know how truthful Jodi is) so the test prove that Jodi suffered trauma. Box #4 checked off shows that Jodi answered she was assaulted by a stranger. Her life was threatened. (I'm confused why these test are important. Jodi is a known liar- so IMO, that makes her answers invalid)

The mom and aunt look like they are having
fun!

JM objected to an assault question-Approach

The tiger and lion question. The Dr says it wouldn't matter what attacked her. It's still trauma. PTSD can be from many events. JM keeps objecting

The return of the bear and tiger!

These people are idiots. I felt
nothing when I killed Travis. I liked it! I
liked it so much, I can even sleep at nights with
no problems.

Approach

The Dr is explaining how many events can happen to bring PTSD. Dr. Demarte gave Jodi test. One was the IQ score. Both these test were updated. There was no reason to give these test. They had nothing to do with the mental issues of Jodi. Only if they suspect the person has mental retardation. The Dr. is basically saying that Dr. Demarte didn't know what she was doing. The Dr. says they are just padding their bill.

That jury loves me!

I've missed you my latin lover!

Recess until 1:20

After lunch
Dr. is back on the stand. Palin is still up for the defense. Palin starts out right away GOING BACK to the Dr's work experience. The dr doesn't know any of the people involved in this case other than Alyce. Sounds like they are friends.

I like to check in with Nurmi sometimes.
Yes, he's still there. They should bring
him a recliner so he's more comfortable.

Now they are talking about appeals. A court had a problem with Dr's testimony. Dr keeps saying the court tried to impeach him. (LOL) JM is objecting, but Palin and the Dr keep talking.
Now he's explaining his other degrees. (No way am I writing down his 1000 page CV) OMFG-Shut UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!
JM finally objects to reverence and Palin asks for an approach

The Dr says he knows the brain. He's dealt with people with frontal lobe injuries. EX 529- the brain picture.

EX 529

Now he's explaining the brain and how each part of the brain controls what we do. His former patients had a gun shot in his brain. One was a suicide patient and one an accident. Both were in the frontal lobe. They survived. The doc read Dr. Horn's report. Right side shot in the frontal lobe. There were no injuries noted inside the brain. JM objects

Approach (my feed keeps skipping)

Dr Horn said there was no injury to Travis' brain. The Durmater (sp?) was intact. The Dr says he would except to see problems with verbal stuff. Personality changes (WTF?) JM objects

I must suck the jury's soul out!

I hope this is my pitiful look

I really hate that one juror. She looks
like a bitch that is asking all those stupid
questions.

Yes, I must tell Nurmi to have her removed.

Approach

Palin wants to try again. The dr. does not agree with Dr. Horn. The dr. said there is plenty of reports that people survive frontal lobe injuries.

The Dr is not diagnosing Jodi. He is just giving his opinion on the reports he read. JM objects when Palin brings up Dr. DeMarte. Approach

Dr. doesn't think Dr Demarte has a good grasp of her job. Dr is saying the Dr. D should have explained why (uh, she did. She said Jodi was a liar-which made the test invalid) Oh, the Dr just said Dr. D said Jodi lied-How did he know that?( He watched the testimony) The Dr. says they ignored some of the test results. JM objects and Palin asks for an approach.

Dr. says he would have looked at PTSD.
Palin is finished

JM is up
CA licence- Dr is not licenced in AZ or HA. He is not licenced in TN either, but he testified there with def. O'Rorke in TN. The trial court found Dr. was just a hired gun. The judge said Dr's testimony was without merit. JM is showing him the judge's opinion. The judge said Dr's testimony was completely without merit. The Dr was hired by the mother. Child custody case. Dr. didn't speak to the father. JM is making him read some more stuff. (for some reason, witness have a hard time answering yes or no with JM) The Dr. provided an opinion without ever talking to the father.

I'm going to be famous!

Texas-Clark case- Dr. submitted an affidavit and the court found the Dr. submitted paperwork that lacked creditably. The court found Dr was making things up. The Dr used records from 1976 (WOW), and he used those records for his opinion.

Hawaii- The court excluded Dr's testimony-a small part.
The Dr does know Alyce. He was an editor for her book. He's only getting salary. Not paid for his testimony. The Dr was contacted last week about this case. He was first contacted in Nov of last year. JM interviewed him on Monday, and the Dr. said less than a week ago. (The Dr. can not answer yes or no)

Jodi's lies

Floating profile- (My link keeps skipping) JM is reading off a bunch of names from a book about the floating profile.
Didn't you do your research before coming here? Not on the doctor.

Palin yells out, and the judge says approach.

What articles did you review? One was the article you just mentioned.
JM says to take it out so they can mark it. Floating profiles usually have Axis 2 with BPD.

MMPI 2- EX 631- Palin yells out she wants the whole picture of the chart on the screen and JM replies saying "I don't need it for my cross"
JM is bringing out an article about BPD. Palin asks for an approach

This is my bitchy face.

EX 631- Isn't this profile BPD? No
JM is having him read something. Doesn't that show this profile is BPD? NO
Secondary Gain- Dr. says it's somebody doing something that benefits them.
A person in jail has something to gain? Yes
JM yells at the Dr "Why are you reading something? I thought you were an expert" (OOOHHHHH)

Palin asks for an approach

Dr is telling JM what the different things on the scale are.

10 minute break until 3:10

I'm so sad this trial is almost over. What in
the hell are we going to do with our days then?

After break
BPD- the Dr doesn't think it's BPD. EX- Timothy J Troll (SP?) MMPI BPD scale article-

Palin asks for another approach

Table 2 in the article- K corrected. (I'm confused) It's about BPD. I guess JM is saying Jodi's scales match the scores for known BPD in a research article. (One thing about the Dr. He remains nice and polite) Palin asks for an approach

The Dr is now saying yes or no. All 61 people used in the BPD research that had BPD-had the same symptoms as Jodi.

Jodi's floating brain

Trauma- John Breere PH.D actually put it together. (JM has done some serious research on this crap)

EX 644-TSI test- The Dr. has hand scored these test before. Well, staff did it for him. The doc is getting tongue tied and spilled his water again.

It's hard to hold a water glass

The doc said he never used the word bad about Dr. Demarte and JM says "Oh, so you were glowing about her work"

"How do you know what Dr. Demarte knew? Are you a mind reader?"

Palin timidly asks for an approach

Palin does approaches b/c she needs
lawyering advice from the judge.

You reviewed Dr. Demarte's report? Yes.
You made the leap that she didn't know about the summary scale? Yes
Aren't summary scales just 3 readings? You would have to define what you mean
JM counts off 3 areas out loud (LOL)
They just summarize what in the box to the left. There are 10 scales. The 3 just summarize the 10 to the left.

Trauma- EX 646- this looks at the trauma. A person is given 0-3 to fill in. Palin wants to approach

Dr. Carp's report- Didn't you say Dr. Carp's was the same as EX 646? No. Not exactly the same.
John Berer (sp?) His report about 89 % of people with BPD.

EX 652- It's a copyrighted paper. It's on John's letterhead. The dr. says it's not his letterhead, it's his web site.
JM wants 652 admitted in. Palin asks for an approach (this is annoying)

The Dr. doesn't know if John put the document out or not. TSI scales have identified 89% of BPD. The Dr. says JM is wording the stuff in a double negative. JM says the Dr. had no problem with the defense when they had a double negative.

EX 646- the Dr. is familiar with the ex. The Dr. won't say yes or no now. (He is starting to sound like Alyce.) The Dr. still says Dr. DeMarte's work was sub-par even thought JM is showing the Dr. there is research that says otherwise. The Dr. says JM is saying stuff about that's like apple to oranges. (yeah.)

Jodi's messed up hills

Frontal lobe- Dr. hasn't been in any autopsies. (BOOM) The Dr. has never been around an autopsy. You still fill confident offering an opinion about Travis' brain? No, I'm just assuming everything he wrote in his report is correct. The Dr. agrees that Travis' brain was Tapioca.

PTSD-Bear or Tiger-(UGH) Secondary gain. Dr. admits that a person can over report or be untruthful. So if a person lies, would it be important? Yes. The Dr. may have used the test 20-40 times. Palin asks for an approach when JM brings up the bubble sheet.

This is what I think of when I think
of the bear and tiger stuff!

How many times did you fill out the bubble sheet for the client? Not often
The Dr. did not fill out sheets for patients. (LOL)
A liar and no traumatic event- Is the test still valid? I wouldn't give the test.
If a person lies, would it raise a red flag to you? Yes

Jodi lies? No way...said nobody ever

EX 653 &654- photos of Travis' skull opened up. The dr. says he couldn't tell the bullet path. The Dr. says he would trust what the ME says in their report-somewhat. JM gets the Dr to admit that he would go to an expert for the bullet stuff.

JM is finished

Palin asks for an approach

Break

Late afternoon

Palin is up.
O'Rooke case-Hired gun. Dr. says it was a child custody case with a battered woman. The Dr. bashed other experts about their work in this case. JM objects, the Judge agrees, Palin asks for an approach.
The judge sustains Palin again, then Palin tells the doc "well, briefly what happened"

Approach

Clark case- The Dr. says he was not wrong
French case- it was about kidnapping. He was allowed to testify.
JM keeps objecting, Palin keeps on. Approach-Jodi smiled when JM was objecting

Jodi wishes JM was her lawyer!

Floating profiles-EX 649- Dr. Gathel's profile. The Dr is all of a sudden able to talk about the article. Now the dr. is going into details. Now they are going into details about all those scales. EX 652- The Dr. says it's a printoff of a web site. The Dr. says that BPD also comes out with PTSD.

I'd like to choke a ho

Dr. Horn's report-The Dr. says he knows the brain. The Dr. says it's possible the bullet didn't go through the brain. His opinion is based on books he read and some stuff out of Europe. This is all based on the Dr's opinion that the bullet did not go through the motor strip
Palin finished

Jury Questions

How do you feel jail affects test such as the MCMI? If you are paranoid, your paranoid stuff can go up. Your depression can become worse.
Is it possible a person could experience a traumatic event after killing a person instead of prior to the event? Yes, uh....depends on what test your looking at.
Please discuss the scales on Page 2 of the MCMI test. The dr explains-these are the lie scales.
You stated it's not a correct way to use an old test if a new test is out. Is it like that for everything? For example, Dr. Samuels was not using a new DSM book. Does this cause any concern? DSM is not a test. The Dr doesn't think it's a good idea.
How many questions were changed on the TSI1 versus the TSI 2? There are 26 questions that are new or rewritten.
Are you saying the test can be valid even if the client misstates what the trauma was? If they lie, yes that is important. The Dr. says he would still want to explore more to see where the results are coming from. The Dr. says there would be something else going on that they didn't want to admit (LOL)
Lack of hemorrhage to the brain. Could the lack of hemorrhage also show that the gun shot happened after death? uh....the doctor starts stuttering. He says it depends on how far after death. He says it could be so far after that there is no blood left in the brain.
Is it your opinion that a gun shot to the brain would not drop a person right away? Depends on the cal. of gun.
You've said you are not being paid for this case, is any business you are associated with being paid? Yes. We've worked 70-80 hours on this case. They've made 13-14 thousand on this case.
Are there attempts to lie on a test to change the outcome? Yes. JM showed us a study about lying.
Is it possible to manipulate the test? It would be hard to manipulate all the test.
Isn't it usual for a defendant to score high on anxiety before trial? it's common
Shouldn't you consider that being in jail for years, then facing DP or LWOP in jail would show up on test as anxiety? Why do you assume these things were caused by the events in 2008? The dr says he's not assuming anything. He doesn't know what caused Jodi's results.
When you evaluated these test, did you know they were Jodi's? Yes
Did you hear of the case prior to evaluation the test? No
Do you think if you knew more information it could have changed how you read the test? Yes, if I knew the details of the case.

Another juror question in the basket

Approach

Jury Questions

Do bullets always travel in a straight line when going through a body or can a bullet change it's direction by deflection? Yes
If it can change direction, can you give us a with 100% what that path was? No
Was there anything else that made you think Dr. DeMarte was not good at her job? The defense told the doc that Dr. DeMarte did not know what the summary scales were . The Dr. said Dr. DeMarte doesn't know what's she doing (basically)

Palin is up
The Dr. still says that Dr. Fog should have used the updated manual, but there were no major changes. The Dr. is saying that if somebody lies on a PTS test, he would still question what was going on with them. Jodi's test show she has PTSD.

Manipulate test- The Dr. says all Jodi's test matched up with each other. The Dr. says it would be hard to fake all the test. Approach
I think this Dr. thinks Jodi has many things...PTSD, BPD, and anxiety.

The bullet- The Dr. is not a bullet expert. He only knows brain stuff. BUT he is now explaining where the bullet would go. The Dr. keeps talking about the motor strips.
Palin is finished

JM is up
The PDS test starts out with a lie. JM is saying secondary gain.
Isn't the pattern that this person is lying? No
Do you go to the Alyce school of lying? OBJECTION from Palin
When does exaggerating become a lie for you-10%, 20%? There is no percent.
What standard do you use from exaggerating and lying? They are not the same thing.
Do you believe I'm 6 foot tall? No

Well, am I lying or exaggerating? it could be either. There is no cut off.

Approach

EX 631- The scales. 2 are above the line. 2 lies. But the Dr disagrees. The Dr. agrees that 2 could be exaggerating. The Dr. would not use the word lie on any scale.
Do you consider the PTS test valid? I can't answer it yes or no. The Dr. says Jodi's profile was a valid profile or result. There are just some cautions.

TSI 1 and TSI 2- TSI 2 was out for 6 mths when Dr. DeMarte gave Jodi the TSI 1 test.

Approach

The Dr admits that the TSI 1 wouldn't be invalid.

Those stupid scales

PD NOS- Did you know that Dr. Samuels actually.......(cliffhanger b/c Palin objects and they approach)

Dr. said DeMarte talked about floating profile in her report which would make it wrong. The Dr. is having a hard time remembering what he said about DeMarte. The Dr. says Dr DeMarte lacks training-but he has a hard time recalling.

Payment- How much do you make a year? 117,000. The Dr. bills for this case. What is the hourly wage being billed? 250 an hour

Approach

The dr. is an expert at testifying.
You are not an expert at bullets are you? Correct
Travis could have been dead when he was shot, right? Yes

JM asks for an approach

Would you agree that your experience with autopsies is actually less than somebody that conducts autopsies and sees the damage of bullet wounds? I agree

JM is finished

Jury has to leave for 10 minutes

I get so horny talking about
the damage I did to Travis!

JM calls Kevin Horn.

Every trial must have a small bit of
eye candy in it.

EX 653 & 654- Travis' skull. Admitted in- Dr. Horn says no blood means the person already bled out or was already dead. Travis was already dead. They are not showing the pictures on the screen. Dr. Horn says Travis' brain was like pudding. Dr Horn says if the shot was first, Travis would have collapsed. Dr. Horn said it squashed Travis' brain. Dr. Horn says if the shot was first, Travis would have collapsed to the ground and been unresponsive.

So very heartbreaking!

Travis' brother looks so disgusted!

At least this once, Jodi's family decided to show
some respect.

JM finished

Palin is up
Dr. Horn is explaining about the blood in the brain. Dr. Horn says Travis bleed out from other injuries. Dr. Horn says that it would have taken seconds for Travis to bleed out. Dr. Horn put Travis' brain in a pan. Dr. Horn explains the brain was like sludge. Now Palin is word playing. Palin is trying to be like JM. Dr. Horn keeps explaining that he didn't call it liquefied. When Palin gets him to agree finally she says OKAY! Dr. Horn cuts Travis' brain in slices. Dr. Horn agrees that the bullet didn't explode in the brain and he didn't see a track in the brain.

We have faith that justice is coming!

Dr. Horn has read articles but tells Palin he can't quote any today. EX 654- Travis's skull and brain. Palin is an idiot. She just said, so when the bullet went in, it was only in briefly? Dr Horn looks at her like she's stupid and says "Sure, briefly. It takes no time at all" HAHA
Palin finished

JM is up
EX 653- Dr. Horn said the bullet entered the right frontal lobe.
JM is finsihed

Jury Questions

Would you agree that 100% of the people you see with frontal lobe injuries are deceased at the time? I hope so (LOL)

HA! Finally a good questions from the jury.
Dr. Horn works with dead people. Hope
Jenny finally got that memo

JM is up
Dr. Horn says even though the 100% of the people he sees are dead, it doesn't change his opinion.

Palin up
This is just based on your experience? Yes

Jury question

Your report said there was no damage to the duramembrane. Can you explain why there was no damage? He says the only thing he can say it's a typo on his part.

JM up
Dr. Horn said there was damage to the duramembrane.

Palin up
Dr. Horn is aware this is a capital case. Dr. Horn says he reviewed his report before testifying. Dr. Horn admits he made a mistake.

Dr Horn is finished

State calls Jill Hayes. She works in AZ and LA. She has a strong southern accent. She's a dr.

Put this in your pipe Jodi!

She has lots of education. She went to LSU (YEAH GO TIGERS) She came to AZ when Katrina hit New Orleans. Jill has testified around 75 times. She works 50/50 for state and defense.

Now Jill is talking about the different test. TSI test. Jill didn't review Jodi's PTS test. Jill says she would be concerned if somebody lied on the test. She says the test would be invalid.

Palin asks for an approach

Palin asks for another approach

Jill would not ignore the results of lies. She would be honest in her report and say that person was lying.

Palin asks for another approach

EX 631- Jodi's profile-floating profile. Why is this a floating profile? Jill circles all the high stuff on Jodi's profile. Floating profile is still used and researched. Jill is explaining how Dr. Gatchal changed the profile for his spinal patients.

Jill's circles

EX 646- TSI test for trauma- there's a 1 and 2. Jill says there is no problem with using 1 or 2 b/c a new test can sometimes have kinks. The summary scales are not required. Jill talked to the publisher of the documents to make sure.

MMPI EX 631- Jill says no good dr. would base their opinion on just one test. No patient is ever the same. People are different. You can't just diagnoses somebody from the test.

Palin asks for an approach

Jill says you don't just give them the test. Jill says you have to give a person a reading test. Jill says you have to make sure the person understands what they are reading and understanding.

JM is finished

Palin is up.
Jill explains why you just wouldn't give them something to read. They need the test to see what grade level they are. Palin is bringing up all the diary entries. Jill explains it's the best practice to do. Jill says if DeMarte wouldn't have done the test, she would be criticized for not giving it. JIll says she would have gave the reading test too.

Palin is having a hard time questioning Jill. Jill is a GREAT witness.

Jill doesn't use the TSI 2. (Poor Palin. She's having a rough time with this witness) Jill is explaining why it's best to wait when new test are released. Jill tells Palin she is looking at this like looking at one chair on the titanic.

uh...uh....Wait....I'm confused again!

Jill called and verified about the summary scales b/c this is a murder case and she wanted to be sure about her information. Jill tells Palin she is wrong about summary scales-then Palin moves on to another question after a long pause.

PDS test. The dr says one lie makes you question all the other answers they have. Bear and tiger again from Palin. Jill says she would have red flags. If you know the first event is a lie, you have to assume everything else is a lie. If you are mauled, you have marks!!!!!!!!!